paizo.com - Forums / Pathfinder Second Edition: General Discussion: Secrets of magic ama? (2024)

Perpdepog wrote:

Gisher wrote:

Were any new specific staves added in the book?

Only two, unfortunately. One in the permanent magic items section, and one as the example for how custom staves are made.

There's also a Staff-Storing Shield that lets you put any staff into a shield and switch between the two as an action.

Ezekieru wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

Gisher wrote:

Were any new specific staves added in the book?

Only two, unfortunately. One in the permanent magic items section, and one as the example for how custom staves are made.

There's also a Staff-Storing Shield that lets you put any staff into a shield and switch between the two as an action.

That's really cool!

gesalt wrote:

Kalaam wrote:

gesalt wrote:

Kalaam wrote:

Is there some fun gish oriented spells?

Fun? Plenty.

Blazing Dive
Arcane, primal. 3rd level
Fly 15ft, then fly in a straight line to an empty space on the ground within 60ft. After landing deal 3d4 bludgeoning and 3d6 fire in a 10ft AoE. Damage scales.

Blink Charge
Arcane, divine, occult. 5th level
Teleport up to 60ft to an adjacent enemy and attack. Deal extra force damage on hit. Damage and distance scales.

Flowing Strike
Arcane primal. 5th level
Surf a wave up to 50ft. Movement doesn't provoke reactions. Strike at any point during the stride and deal extra bludgeoning and push 10ft on hit.

Among others

Damn, Magus can't have enough slots for all of that ! xD

The bad news is that with magi slots as limited as they are you need to choose between fun and practical. Spells like these are best suited for multiclass dedication slots if anything.

Time to get a staff, wands, scrolls and a free caster MCD.

lightwitch wrote:

If one is making a personalised staff, can the spells be contributed from multiple sources? For example, could a cleric add Searing Light to a magus' Staff of Attack, in an undead-heavy campaign? (They will of course have the Trick Magic Item feat).

When making custom staves the restrictions are they all share a trait and the trait can't be super broad. Only explicitly restricted traits are Incapacitation and spell schools and traditions.

So if you had a Fire trait staff you could have Searing light on it as well as something like fireball or burning hands.

Although it might not be useful to you unless you MCD into something that has it on their list

Quote:

You can add a spell you can’t cast to a staff by supplying a casting of it via another caster or by using Trick Magic Item; however, since you can cast a spell from a staff only if it’s on your spell list, this option isn’t useful for most characters.

Vlorax wrote:

lightwitch wrote:

If one is making a personalised staff, can the spells be contributed from multiple sources? For example, could a cleric add Searing Light to a magus' Staff of Attack, in an undead-heavy campaign? (They will of course have the Trick Magic Item feat).

When making custom staves the restrictions are they all share a trait and the trait can't be super broad. Only explicitly restricted traits are Incapacitation and spell schools and traditions.

So if you had a Fire trait staff you could have Searing light on it as well as something like fireball or burning hands.

Although it might not be useful to you unless you MCD into something that has it on their list

Quote:

You can add a spell you can’t cast to a staff by supplying a casting of it via another caster or by using Trick Magic Item; however, since you can cast a spell from a staff only if it’s on your spell list, this option isn’t useful for most characters.

Multiclassing was my motivation for breaking the spells down by tradition.

• Custom Staff Spell Traits

It seems like a Twisting Tree Magus might be able to benefit from picking up a non-arcane Witch MC.

I got my PDF this morning.

No new patron themes or lessons for witches.

I have only just begun to read the book, but I have kept up on the spoilers and read some of the spells so far. I think these could be useful for a battle oracle, but I have not read all of their descriptions in detail (this is taken from the spell list summary for Divine):

Haunting Hymn cantrip is a powerful hymn harms and deafens.

1st LEVEL DIVINE SPELLS
Concordant Choir is a 1st level spell that can damage foes with music.
Echoing Weapon is another 1st level spell where your attacks build up to release a sonic pulse.

2nd LEVEL DIVINE SPELLS
Inner Radiance Torrent is a 2nd level spell that lets you gather spiritual energy to fire a storm of force bolts and beams.
Instant Armor is a contingency spell to return your armor to you; useful for those transitions from social encounter or sleeping to combat.
Warrior’s Regret causes regrets to overcome a foe when they harm others.

DIVINE 3RD-LEVEL SPELLS
Impending Doom makes a foe witness its potential death and become distressed.
Mind of Menace sets a contingency to punish a foe’s mental effect and protect yourself from it.
Organsight lets you see a foe’s organs, and use your knowledge to deal precision damage.
Positive Attunement can attune a creature to the Positive Energy Plane, healing a living creature or damaging an undead.
Roaring Applause can force the target to cheer and applaud you.
Rouse Skeletons lets you rouse a squadron of skeletons to claw your foes.
Warding Aggression lets you strike an enemy to improve your defense against it, and extend the spell with further attacks (if you can hit its AC, as this is done as a melee Strike and not a spell attack - Actually, this one is better for a martial class with a non-occult caster dedication).

I won't go any further, but those appear to be the most relevant to your question for up through 3rd level spells. There seems to be a lot more combative spells added to the Divine list.

Invictus Fatum wrote:

siegfriedliner wrote:

I assume eidilons are still using d8 and d4 agile attacks with no options for weapon traits

Not necessarily. You can choose multiple options for your primary attack.

D8 and you choose one trait out of disarm, nonlethal, shove, or trip.
D6 can be fatal d10, forceful & sweep together, or deadly d8 & finesse together.

As others have mentioned, secondary is always d6 agile & finesse.

How does the functionality work if you take D8 with the trip trait (you automatically pick a trait or still need a feat (unarmed evolution in the playtest at lvl 4)?

Does it use the summoner's athletics or does the Eidolon have their own athletics ability for their own attacks?

Feats to improve things like trip in there? Just curious if it's even worth considering a trait like trip depending on how that interacts with the Eidolon to make it effective or not.

Ayrkire wrote:

Invictus Fatum wrote:

siegfriedliner wrote:

I assume eidilons are still using d8 and d4 agile attacks with no options for weapon traits

Not necessarily. You can choose multiple options for your primary attack.

D8 and you choose one trait out of disarm, nonlethal, shove, or trip.
D6 can be fatal d10, forceful & sweep together, or deadly d8 & finesse together.

As others have mentioned, secondary is always d6 agile & finesse.

See Also

Pathfinder 2 RPG - Pathfinder Secrets of MagicSecrets of Magic - Digital Reader - Pathfinder 2e NexusSecrets of Magic - PathfinderWiki

How does the functionality work if you take D8 with the trip trait (you automatically pick a trait or still need a feat (unarmed evolution in the playtest at lvl 4)?

Does it use the summoner's athletics or does the Eidolon have their own athletics ability for their own attacks?

Feats to improve things like trip in there? Just curious if it's even worth considering a trait like trip depending on how that interacts with the Eidolon to make it effective or not.

The Eidolon uses your skill proficiencies, but using their ability scores. There's also a feat to give the Eidolon a 1st, 2nd and 7th level skill feat. So you can spec them to be really good at tripping if built right.

As for the first question, you automatically pick from those choices. There's also a Level 1 feat that lets you add disarm,
grapple, nonlethal, shove, trip, or versatile bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing to one of your starting melee attacks.

Shisumo wrote:

...am I just overlooking the eidolon's starting Perception proficiency?

That does seem to be missing from the base section of the Eidolon. They do point out they go to Expert at 3rd level. So assume it's Trained for now. Likely it needs to be put in as errata.

Aghost wrote:

Are there any interesting muse/feat for the bard?

Nothing for the bard here except more occult spells and the casting archetypes

Aghost wrote:

Are there any interesting muse/feat for the bard?

Nope. Only single-class options in this book is the new Druid Orders, new Monk Stances, and the Runelord archetype for specialist non-divination Wizards. All the other regular and class archetypes are available to a wider net of casters.

Bards might enjoy the Wellspring class archetype. Shadow Magic or Cathartic Magic archetypes would be decent for them too. And plenty of good spells for them in this book, too.

What new exclusive spells did each of the 4 traditions get?

Also, is there any new 10th Level spell?

Lucas Yew wrote:

What new exclusive spells did each of the 4 traditions get?

Also, is there any new 10th Level spell?

A few 10th level spells are in here, yes.

Nullify: All 4 traditions, lets you auto-counterspell any 9th level or lower spell, but you damage yourself as a result.
Fated Confrontation: All 4 traditions, force either yourself or an ally and an enemy into a space and the damage/debuffs are only affected by one another. Both targets (enemy and you/ally) can get a fortune effect on one of their checks, or make the other do a roll as a misfortune effect. The spell lasts for 1 minutes, and until either one is unconscious, or both cease hostilities.
Shadow Army: Arcane and Occult, summons a shadow army of yourself. Makes it easier to hide in the crowd. Does mental damage and if they fail their Will save, you can impose a debuff on them.
Elemental Embodied: Primal only. 10th level elemental battle form. Got choices of Air, Earth, Water and Fire.
Summon Kaiju: Primal only. Incarnate summoning spell, lets you summon a Kaiju. They arrive, do an effect, then stick around for a turn and then leave with an effect. There's 6 different Kaiju listed, each with their own Arrival/Depart effects.

Lucas Yew wrote:

What new exclusive spells did each of the 4 traditions get?

Also, is there any new 10th Level spell?

Arcane

Summon archmage
Summon dragon legion

Divine
Angel form
Deity’s Strike
Divine Armageddon
Summon anarch
Summon axiom
Summon deific herald
Summon lesser servitor

Occult
Aberrant form
Biting words
Infectious melody
Portrait of the artist
Sonata span
Sudden recollection

Primal
Animal allies
Clone companion
Element embodied
Elemental gift
Envenom companion
Feral shades
Healing plaster
Juvenile companion
Murderous vine
Nature's reprisal
One with the land
Petal storm
Protector tree
Summon kaiju
Whirlwind

New 10s
Element embodied P
Fated confrontation A,D,O,P
Nullify A,D,O,P
Shadow army A,O
Summon kaiju P

I'm sorry, Divine Armageddon?

Colour me curious.

TheGentlemanDM wrote:

I'm sorry, Divine Armageddon?

Colour me curious.

Divine Armageddon

Level 8
Range 120ft, area 60ft burst
10d6 negative damage, 10d6 alignment damage (matches one of your deities alignments)
TN deities deal 14d6 negative instead.
Enemies that are damaged by positive take positive damage instead.

gesalt wrote:

TheGentlemanDM wrote:

I'm sorry, Divine Armageddon?

Colour me curious.

Divine Armageddon

Level 8
Range 120ft, area 60ft burst
10d6 negative damage, 10d6 alignment damage (matches one of your deities alignments)
TN deities deal 14d6 negative instead.
Enemies that are damaged by positive take positive damage instead.

I find it amusing this spell can do good necrotic damage.

siegfriedliner wrote:

gesalt wrote:

TheGentlemanDM wrote:

I'm sorry, Divine Armageddon?

Colour me curious.

Divine Armageddon

Level 8
Range 120ft, area 60ft burst
10d6 negative damage, 10d6 alignment damage (matches one of your deities alignments)
TN deities deal 14d6 negative instead.
Enemies that are damaged by positive take positive damage instead.

I find it amusing this spell can do good necrotic damage.

I find it amusing that Wall-E, as a construct, would be immune to a spell called Armageddon. I suppose he's destined to be. :)

Also, if that's the phrasing, somebody who takes full damage (or even worse) from negative energy and half damage from positive would take positive damage. I doubt there will ever be such a creature, but still, it seems an odd qualifier.

Blave wrote:

How many Cantrips do Magus and Summoner get per day? The basic 5?

Yes, five. Magi have the cantrip expansion feat at 2 and Summoners have effectively the same option (except it teaches the cantrips to your eidolon) if you want more.

Squiggit wrote:

The only support for Summoning spells is three feats: One at 6 that lets you turn a spell slot into two spell slots but only for summoning spells (once per day), one at 8 that makes Boost Eidolon hit your summons and a level 20 feat that upgrades the level 6 feat to let you turn one level 9 slot into two level 10 slots (but only for summoning and incarnate spells).

Replying to myself but I missed one: There's a feat that causes a 1d4/spell level explosion (no save) when you summon a creature in a 10-foot emanation too. Damage is fairly low but hey it's automatic.

You can also benefit from the feat when you manifest your eidolon, but your eidolon manifests adjacent to you so you'll always hit yourself with it.

Imagine going from taking no damage from manifesting the eidolon, to next level taking damage every time you do it.

That right there is big OOF. Hopefully, that gets fixed, if you really have not control over it.

gesalt wrote:

Lucas Yew wrote:

What new exclusive spells did each of the 4 traditions get?

Also, is there any new 10th Level spell?

Arcane

Summon archmage
Summon dragon legion

Divine
Angel form
Deity’s Strike
Divine Armageddon
Summon anarch
Summon axiom
Summon deific herald
Summon lesser servitor

Occult
Aberrant form
Biting words
Infectious melody
Portrait of the artist
Sonata span
Sudden recollection

Primal
Animal allies
Clone companion
Element embodied
Elemental gift
Envenom companion
Feral shades
Healing plaster
Juvenile companion
Murderous vine
Nature's reprisal
One with the land
Petal storm
Protector tree
Summon kaiju
Whirlwind

New 10s
Element embodied P
Fated confrontation A,D,O,P
Nullify A,D,O,P
Shadow army A,O
Summon kaiju P

Why the Arcane list always get the fewest number of exclusive spells?

Sbor wrote:

Why the Arcane list always get the fewest number of exclusive spells?

Probably because it's the largest and most versatile tradition (as long as you don't want to heal). It might not have many exclusive spells, but in exchange it does share many excellent spells with the other tradtion. There's plenty of good spells that are Arcane/Occult or Arcane/Primal.

Temperans wrote:

Imagine going from taking no damage from manifesting the eidolon, to next level taking damage every time you do it.

That right there is big OOF. Hopefully, that gets fixed, if you really have not control over it.

You do have control over it. It's a free action activation.

Perpdepog wrote:

Temperans wrote:

Imagine going from taking no damage from manifesting the eidolon, to next level taking damage every time you do it.

That right there is big OOF. Hopefully, that gets fixed, if you really have not control over it.

You do have control over it. It's a free action activation.

Thank you, for clarifying.

The Ronyon wrote:

What can yall tell me about the backgrounds?

In particular how are the Rare Backgrounds awarded?
Magical Experiment seems extremely good.

Far as I can tell there isn't any special mechanic for awarding the backgrounds, the book just repeats what it says in Advanced Player's Guide and talks about having discussions with the GM and group beforehand. Some of the common backgrounds are neat; there is one for contacting an eidolon early which gives you lots of options for your granted skill and lore skill, and some others like Magical Misfit seem like nice starting points for some builds.

A lot of the rare backgrounds are along one of two lines. They either have some mechanic that grants you a reroll ability, like a diet hero point, or they give you fewer boosts in exchange for a permanent character benefit, like Magical Experiment does.

Charlesfire wrote:

Does the synthesist summoner feat still exists?

Nope

Charlesfire wrote:

Does the synthesist summoner feat still exists?

Yes but with another name.

gesalt wrote:

Charlesfire wrote:

Does the synthesist summoner feat still exists?

Nope

Yes, it does exist. It has been renamed "Meld Into Eidolon", and is still 1st level. Some of it is worded a little differently to account for things like Act Together, but it is pretty much the same feat.

Ashanderai wrote:

gesalt wrote:

Charlesfire wrote:

Does the synthesist summoner feat still exists?

Nope

Yes, it does exist. It has been renamed "Meld Into Eidolon", and is still 1st level. Some of it is worded a little differently to account for things like Act Together, but it is pretty much the same feat.

With a more "synthesist" feeling class archetype a possibility at some point in the (probably far) future.

Question, does Boost Eidolon work with Furious Strike and if so how much does it boost at level 1? Relevant text in this are:

"Your eidolon gains a +2 status bonus to damage rolls with its unarmed attacks." Since it just says attacks then I believe it works with this attack action.

"If your eidolon’s Strikes deal more than one weapon damage die, the status bonus increases to 2 per weapon damage die." While Furious Strike at level 1 does 2 dice of damage, the regular strikes only deal 1 die of damage. So I'm leaning to it gives a +2 rather than +4 since it specifies "strikes".

Not sure what the intentions are, but it uses two different technical terms in the same spell which is making things a bit confusing...at least for me. Any thoughts?

Invictus Fatum wrote:

Question, does Boost Eidolon work with Furious Strike and if so how much does it boost at level 1? Relevant text in this are:

"Your eidolon gains a +2 status bonus to damage rolls with its unarmed attacks." Since it just says attacks then I believe it works with this attack action.

"If your eidolon’s Strikes deal more than one weapon damage die, the status bonus increases to 2 per weapon damage die." While Furious Strike at level 1 does 2 dice of damage, the regular strikes only deal 1 die of damage. So I'm leaning to it gives a +2 rather than +4 since it specifies "strikes".

Not sure what the intentions are, but it uses two different technical terms in the same spell which is making things a bit confusing...at least for me. Any thoughts?

I hope I understand your question correctly. A bit hard to tell without having the book.

Any effect that does something (like extra damage) based on the number of weapon damage dice only counts teh base damage die of the attack plus any dice from striking runes. Extra damage dice from abilities like Power Attack or traits like Deadly never count for "addional damage per weapon dice".

The relevant rule is in the CRB, p.279 under "Counting Damage Dice".

Invictus Fatum wrote:

Question, does Boost Eidolon work with Furious Strike and if so how much does it boost at level 1? Relevant text in this are:

"Your eidolon gains a +2 status bonus to damage rolls with its unarmed attacks." Since it just says attacks then I believe it works with this attack action.

"If your eidolon’s Strikes deal more than one weapon damage die, the status bonus increases to 2 per weapon damage die." While Furious Strike at level 1 does 2 dice of damage, the regular strikes only deal 1 die of damage. So I'm leaning to it gives a +2 rather than +4 since it specifies "strikes".

Not sure what the intentions are, but it uses two different technical terms in the same spell which is making things a bit confusing...at least for me. Any thoughts?

Yes, it does work and the total status bonus to the damage roll is +4 when using Boost Eidolon with Furious Strike at 1st level (for a total of +5 after factoring in the Circ*mstance bonus from Furious Strike). Boost Eidolon has a duration of 1 round, which is why the use of the word "Strikes" is relevant as there could be several Strikes in a given round. At least, that is my reading of the full text in both of the abilities.

Blave wrote:

Invictus Fatum wrote:

Question, does Boost Eidolon work with Furious Strike and if so how much does it boost at level 1? Relevant text in this are:

"Your eidolon gains a +2 status bonus to damage rolls with its unarmed attacks." Since it just says attacks then I believe it works with this attack action.

"If your eidolon’s Strikes deal more than one weapon damage die, the status bonus increases to 2 per weapon damage die." While Furious Strike at level 1 does 2 dice of damage, the regular strikes only deal 1 die of damage. So I'm leaning to it gives a +2 rather than +4 since it specifies "strikes".

Not sure what the intentions are, but it uses two different technical terms in the same spell which is making things a bit confusing...at least for me. Any thoughts?

I hope I understand your question correctly. A bit hard to tell without having the book.

Any effect that does something (like extra damage) based on the number of weapon damage dice only counts teh base damage die of the attack plus any dice from striking runes. Extra damage dice from abilities like Power Attack or traits like Deadly never count for "addional damage per weapon dice".

The relevant rule is in the CRB, p.279 under "Counting Damage Dice".

This checks out, especially since Boost Eidolon's cap is a +8 with four weapon damage dice. Anger Phantom's psuedo-Power-Attack is worded just like Power Attack, so the same rules and restrictions apply.

Ezekieru wrote:

Blave wrote:

Invictus Fatum wrote:

Question, does Boost Eidolon work with Furious Strike and if so how much does it boost at level 1? Relevant text in this are:

"Your eidolon gains a +2 status bonus to damage rolls with its unarmed attacks." Since it just says attacks then I believe it works with this attack action.

"If your eidolon’s Strikes deal more than one weapon damage die, the status bonus increases to 2 per weapon damage die." While Furious Strike at level 1 does 2 dice of damage, the regular strikes only deal 1 die of damage. So I'm leaning to it gives a +2 rather than +4 since it specifies "strikes".

Not sure what the intentions are, but it uses two different technical terms in the same spell which is making things a bit confusing...at least for me. Any thoughts?

I hope I understand your question correctly. A bit hard to tell without having the book.

Any effect that does something (like extra damage) based on the number of weapon damage dice only counts teh base damage die of the attack plus any dice from striking runes. Extra damage dice from abilities like Power Attack or traits like Deadly never count for "addional damage per weapon dice".

The relevant rule is in the CRB, p.279 under "Counting Damage Dice".

This checks out, especially since Boost Eidolon's cap is a +8 with four weapon damage dice. Anger Phantom's psuedo-Power-Attack is worded just like Power Attack, so the same rules and restrictions apply.

Oh, yeah, I see that now. I failed to read that section before typing my response above.

Ashanderai wrote:

Am I reading it wrong or does the Fey Eidolon's Fey Chicanery ability only allow you to take Ocular Overload as its contingency spell as it is the only 4th level spell of that type on either the Primal list or the Arcane list that is either an illusion or enchantment? (At least until more 4th level contingency spells show up in later books...)

Contingency spells can be heightened even without a heightened benefit in order to qualify. So also Instant Armor, Summoner's Precaution, Life Connection, and Mind of Menace would also qualify (they're all in the Primal spell tradition).